Curse

Gli · Mar 01, 2006, 10:18 PM // 22:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Speaking of melodramatic: "Laboring under a senseless restriction?"

And you wonder why people call you on rhetoric like that?

That's not melodrama, it's just a figure of speech.

And frankly, I hadn't been wondering why people call me on any kind of rhetoric. To the best of my knowledge no one has. I'm starting to feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here, or having some kind of freaky fever dream. What's gonna happen next? Someone's going to tell me he's my lovechild?

Katari · Mar 01, 2006, 10:23 PM // 22:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigried

The second thing is i have been reading the faqs of factions and i dont see where they anounce the 2 extra slots they just say youll get more and they just dont mention the idea of expanding the storge wich s necesary to do it.

Check the first page of this thread for that. It's always a good place to start if you don't know what's going on.

Mordakai · Mar 01, 2006, 10:26 PM // 22:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cjlr

2 slots is a mixed blessing. I curse the fact that it won't be enough for character of each primary profession. I'm positively orgasmic as to the possibility of having ANY additional content, though. And in the end, that wins out.

Quoted for truth. I guess the reason I'm still arguing is that I understand the frustration of not being able to play every Profession, but it obviously does not break the deal for me.

I've been deleting and making new characters for some time now, I've dealt with it, and as I've said, for me it's a small price to pay for no monthly fee.

I've joined trials of City of Heroes where you can practically have unlimited chracters with all the different servers. Thing is, I only ended up playing about 2 or 3 characters... I just didn't like all the other ones I made.

sigried · Mar 01, 2006, 10:29 PM // 22:29

read every single post that is a guy talkin to who knows not like a game creator or arena.net confirmin it

Can someone tell me who is gaily gray to know this kind of stuff

LaserLight · Mar 01, 2006, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Um...Sigried? Gaile Grey is ArenaNet's public relations manager. She talks directly to Anet, what she says goes. Thus, two slots is confirmed.

Mordakai · Mar 01, 2006, 10:36 PM // 22:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gli

That's not melodrama, it's just a figure of speech.

And frankly, I hadn't been wondering why people call me on any kind of rhetoric. To the best of my knowledge no one has. I'm starting to feel like I'm in the Twilight Zone here, or having some kind of freaky fever dream. What's gonna happen next? Someone's going to tell me he's my lovechild?

I'm 32. Is that even possible?

Sorry about the whole melodrama thing, I guess I took your "Laboring" comment too literally.

sigried · Mar 01, 2006, 10:37 PM // 22:37

Well ok thanks for the clarification. even thou ill only recive 2 extra slots im a happy camper it will make no diference to the core game you still wont be able to create all profs.

kaya · Mar 01, 2006, 10:39 PM // 22:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

If six slots were enough this thread wouldn't be so long. If four slots were enough, there wouldn't have been such lenghty discussions on the topic in the past. Clearly we didn't get enough, and only two additional slots (In addition to two from factions) will fix that.

your absolutly right. this thread is long. but you gotta remember what makes a discussion a long one is strong points from both side. its as equally long with people for this as it is with people against it. i'm not against it, i'd like to have more too. but i am against voicing it like has been done. gratitude for what there already is needs to be considerd too. when people start looking at the good points the bad point will in time fade. i'm a "my cup is half full" person.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

They're missing out on nothing. If they are not happy with what A.Net is offering, then they don't pay for it. Simple as that.

your correct

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Nothing does everything anyone wants. We still lack an aution house, a way to rejoin mid-game, still no option to save PvP-only templates, etc. But those threads don't go on as long. I think I'm justified in saying that is indeed a problem, and that I'm not alone in thinking so.

again... those threads die off faster cause one side or the other is weak. like an arm wrestle

Quote:

Originally Posted by Katari

Oh? did I ever say I expected A.net to conform to every one of my desires?

no you didnt, i should have specified this one desire. my bad.

Gli · Mar 01, 2006, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I'm 32. Is that even possible?

Maybe if we had been a different species. I don't think I was able to conceive when I was 3.

Inureface · Mar 01, 2006, 11:21 PM // 23:21

Thing is, the people who say 6 is enough just say that because they haven't filled up their slots. Having 8 slots wouldn't hurt them at all yet they continue to kiss anet's ass and call us whiners. Like mentioned before, look at the size of the damn thread, you'd think that any topic this long would show that the issue (6vs8) is indeed a problem. 6 slots would be just enough to play every primary profession in PROPHECIES. We get 6 slots, essentially punishing us for buying GW and Factions instead of 8 like a newcomer to factions. I don't care about the abstract percentages or whatever else you can come up with, the simple truth is that 6 slots just IS NOT ENOUGH! Lets say you're the average GW player. 2-3 PvE characters, maybe one is a dedicated farmer. One free/PvP slot. You used all your slots, and you're pretty happy. Here comes factions, SAME SIZE AS TYRIA, but only 2 SLOTS! How do they expect you to play Factions to the fullest WITHOUT BUYING ANOTHER COPY? Lets say your old characters were: W/R, E/Me, Mo/W (or some other farming build). Factions will open up more options that 2 slots will allow. Just a question to Anet, why punish your loyal customers with some cheap ass marketing strategy that works against them. If you really were sqeezing for profits why not make new factions plauyers have only 3 slots but if they link get 4? It would encourge them to buy Prophecies and that means more $$$. Otherwise I don't know what you're trying to do if its not the money you're after.

FrogDevourer · Mar 01, 2006, 11:22 PM // 23:22

First of all let's ditch the opinions I won't bother adressing further. I mean the typical selfish and/or fanboyish opinions without solid backup:
"You don't need more slots because *I* don't need it"
"Just delete your characters like I did"
"ANet is wise, it's their decision, shut up already"

Then a few more words because Mordakai's constructive posts deserve a decent reply.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

A person buying a future chapter will only have access to the Core classes, plus any released with that Chapter.

And? Newcomers will still be stuck with 8 professions and four slots (3 pve + 1 pvp). Wanna guess which professions will be popular in new players? Again, more slots encourages diversity, few slots encourages optimization and redundancy (bye bye original builds). My point remains valid: no the problem won't disappear with chapter 3+ because newcomers will be as screwed those who own two accounts today.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Just like Guild Wars forces you to make choices in what skills you take, Runes you equip, etc., they also force you to choose what Character you will play.

As far as I know you don't lose anything when you select your skills and runes. A fair comparison between character slots and runes/skills would be: "as of now, to change your PvE skillset or equipment, you must delete them to make room for the new one. Skills and equipment you have deleted are lost and you must buy/capture them again to re-use them."

Deleting skills and equipment isn't that important since you can't play them all at the same time, right? I'm sure a lot of players would be excited to capture the same skills over and over each time they alter their skillsets. Deleting a character is bowing to such an unfair system with sacrifices tenfold harder.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

It only "forces" you into a repetitive PvE playstyle if you want to keep a "precious" character.

That's the point. It can be precious because you invested a lot of time and efforts in skill unlocking, equipment or just because you want a tank/trapper/whatever for special occasions. I don't judge your choice to delete a character you would like to play again (your necro), so please understand many players consider their characters as precious, even if they won't play each and every chapter with these precious dolls.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

As for the continual re-rolls... come on! It takes a few minutes to re-roll a PvP character, even less if you know exactly what you want.

If this is such a minor change, why arguing against this option? At least I'll have a small catalogue of PvP templates instead of creating them so fast I make mistakes: wrong armor/rune/upgrade, or worse, deleting PvE items equipped on my PvP slot (yes I'm stupid, and I know I'm not the only one). One popular request in the Sardelac Sanitarium is the ability to store your build (attributes/skills) and to toggle your favourite builds instead of rebuilding them from scratch.More PvP slots would give the same ability, but with equipment included. I'm pressed for time and lazy, plain and simple. As long as it doesn't hurt you, why defend the old system when you could benefit from more options?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

I was going to comment that in exchange for the lack of slots, Guild Wars has incredible flexibilty in altering existing Characters, but apparently even that flexibility is not enough.

Of course not. Your primary profession isn't called primary for nothing. Without superior runes and armors you're at least 33% more efficient. Many templates are simply unplayable as a secondary. Try to play a decent minion master with a primary monk and let me know how efficient you are. Don't take me wrong, being able to switch your secondary and to respecc for free (no more 24 realloc points) is incredibly user-friendly compared to the beta system. I just want to go further, even if I have to give something in exchange (no xp/loot on trial toons, bucks for more slots, or even an insane amount of ingame gold/ecots to swap primary and secondary).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Most people prefer certain classes over others. In any case, the real question is, do you have time to play every character you like?

It's totally irrelevant. What happens if you realize you don't like tanking once you've already deleted the PvE necromancer you loved? You have scratched hundreds of hours spent on this character for something you don't like. Flawless defeat. GG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mordakai

Well, as I've said earlier, it's very possible you like all classes equally. But I would guess you are in the minority.

So what? This is neither a petition nor a democratic vote. Being in a minority does not mean I'm wrong. As far as I understand the problem, most people arguing in favor of the 4+2 system are either trolling at the expense of (false) ragequitters, or honestly believing in unfounded nightmarish scenarios, or playing the devil's advocate on a subject they hardly care about because they're happy with one/two slots.

I've carefully explained why would be a good idea to give more flexibility and why it wouldn't affect the economy, the GW business model, the casual players and the hardcore/chinese farmers. I'm still waiting for consistent counter arguments in favor of the current slot system. So far, I see a lot of bitching, name calling, melodrama, and incredibly hypocritical straw men, but few interesting arguments. That's why this is probably my last post on this topic unless somebody has a new relevant argument. May be someone will be patient enough to (re)read this thread and to explain how account merging, buyable slots or 'trial/experimental' slots would hurt the game or the environment.

Align · Mar 01, 2006, 11:27 PM // 23:27

No, thing is that it's more than enough for me, while 15 slots wouldn't be enough to satisfy some people.

Hanok Odbrook · Mar 01, 2006, 11:34 PM // 23:34

First off, I don't think any of us here (the serious ones at any rate) have any argument with spending $100 a year on GW (roughly an $8.33 monthly fee if you look at it that way) - or a little more if you buy the CE version of each chapter. Even owning two accounts still puts GW slightly ahead in the affordability factor over other MMO's. I think much of what the problem here is what is REASONABLE to expect when playing this game.

Am I satisfied with two more slots for Factions - yes. It's exactly what I expected them to do when Factions was originally announced. Am I happy about it - no. I firmly believe it is reasonable to expect to be able to play each primary profession in an RPG without having to buy multiple copies. Do I think there should be enough slots to cover every prime/second combo - absolutely not - that is not reasonable. It is reasonable to expect enough slots for each prime on a single account.

Perhaps this reasoning dates back to my introduction of the CRPG with the Wizardry series, where I could play each race/profession combination without having to delete any characters or puchase multiple copies of the game. Maybe I'm just too old school for the new games, but I still don't see being able to log on and feel like playing my Mesmer today, my Warrior tomorrow, my Ranger on Saturday, etc., etc., as unreasonable.

Anets 6*100% nonsense is just that. It's flawed mathematics from the very beginning as many of us point out - we were short two slots with the original game; and I have a distinct recollection of Anet stating that an increase in slots for Prophecies was a possibility - that's why many of us who were with the game from the beginning tolerated the shortage - because Anet themselves opened the possibility that a future update would give us more options if the game went well. But back to that math.

We all know that each prime has different quests involved, and even having it as a secondary doesn't permit us to attempt those quests. Naturally, there are attributes, armor, and skills unique to those primes. More stuff we miss out on (aside from the skills as with a secondary, we can purchase them). To me, that means with only one account, I can play only 66% of the content in Prophecies. With only two more slots available in Factions, that number rises to 75% - but we must remember, that 75% is spread across two games now, with only one out of the two Tutorial worlds available to new characters. So in reality with 6 characters, I get to play less than three quarters of a $100 game with one account. Not quite reasonable in my mind - as someone else posted in another thread, it's like buying an NHL hockey game that has all the teams available, but only but only being allowed to play half of them.

If Anet's business model was to give us one slot for each prime they create, then I would have no problem buying a copy of each and every chapter for each of my two accounts - at least one of each being the CE. As it stands now. I will buy only one copy of Factions (debating whether it will be CE or not), and wait for the next subscription free based MMO/COOP RPG to be developed that will allow me to play each primary on one account, and not look back.

Right now, GW is the only fish in this pond. I assure you, that will not be the case for long. I like GW, I am glad its success will revolutionize the future of the MMORPG, but I will not continue to support Anet if my reasonable enjoyment of the game continues to be hampered. There will be someone else along in the near future who will give us what we want - and create an awsome gaming experience to boot. Anet had better get there first if they want to survive in the gaming future they have created.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Here's a PS I just thought of in relation to Anet's math - many of us have bought multiple copies of Prophecies, so in reality there aren't 1,000,000+ players, simply that many accounts that have been created - the actual number of GW gamers is less than that!!

maraxusofk · Mar 01, 2006, 11:43 PM // 23:43

Sweet now i can keep one of my pvp chars alive and not needa delete so much! Laziness FTW!

rollntider · Mar 01, 2006, 11:49 PM // 23:49

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

Thing is, the people who say 6 is enough just say that because they haven't filled up their slots. Having 8 slots wouldn't hurt them at all yet they continue to kiss anet's ass and call us whiners.

I never called anyone a whiner. I kiss no ass and would I like 8 slots on one account? You betcha, but I chose to purchase 4 additional and very happy I did.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

Like mentioned before, look at the size of the damn thread, you'd think that any topic this long would show that the issue (6vs8) is indeed a problem.

Yeah but it is the same 10 people arguing, it isnt 16 pages of different people, its the same people. Same ones saying they will never play again but hanging around the forum instead of looking for the new game that gives them the "freedom "they want.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

6 slots would be just enough to play every primary profession in PROPHECIES.

Yes you are correct if they were primary but with 4 slots you could have a build of every character once and have your choice of 2 duplicated professions. Because each toon can do 2 professions. Thus you can play every profession with 4 slots.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

We get 6 slots, essentially punishing us for buying GW and Factions instead of 8 like a newcomer to factions.

Whoa dude hold it. Newcomer to factions will only have 4 slots, get your facts straight before you start mistating facts. thank you

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

I don't care about the abstract percentages or whatever else you can come up with, the simple truth is that 6 slots just IS NOT ENOUGH!

Per your opinion. I happen to agree that I would like more than 4 per pack, but who is to say 14 or 32 is enough?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

Lets say you're the average GW player. 2-3 PvE characters, maybe one is a dedicated farmer. One free/PvP slot. You used all your slots, and you're pretty happy. Here comes factions, SAME SIZE AS TYRIA, but only 2 SLOTS! How do they expect you to play Factions to the fullest WITHOUT BUYING ANOTHER COPY? Lets say your old characters were: W/R, E/Me, Mo/W (or some other farming build). Factions will open up more options that 2 slots will allow. Just a question to Anet, why punish your loyal customers with some cheap ass marketing strategy that works against them. If you really were sqeezing for profits why not make new factions plauyers have only 3 slots but if they link get 4? It would encourge them to buy Prophecies and that means more $$$. Otherwise I don't know what you're trying to do if its not the money you're after.

Lets just say you want to be mad at Anet, and while I am sure the rest of the people that dont agree with the complainers, would not mind if we did get 8 slots. But to say newcomers get 8 slots is just a lie. GO play a game like wow where when you pay a monthly fee you have a 30 minute wait in que time to play your game. You can have 10 characters per server if they arent full and you can play only one class per character. You also cant swap items between servers. You can play one of every class per race but it would take at least 2 servers to do that there. Or Galaxies where they only have one character per server (unless they changed that) and they nerfed 32 professions down to 8. And all of those Jedis that spent months to get the force, now find n00bs building a jedi from the start. <sarcasm>Yeah arenanet screwed us pal.</sarcasm> How about if Anet refunds every penny you spent for a monthly fee and you guys can call it even and split paths.

Geez it aint perfect, but there are worse models out there. Yes I would love 8 , 10 , 100 characters per account, but it aint gonna happen.

The same 4 people crying for 14 thread pages saying, they are leaving GW if they dont get 8 slots, does not constitute a public outrage.

kaya · Mar 01, 2006, 11:50 PM // 23:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inureface

Thing is, the people who say 6 is enough just say that because they haven't filled up their slots. Having 8 slots wouldn't hurt them at all yet they continue to kiss anet's ass and call us whiners. Like mentioned before, look at the size of the damn thread, you'd think that any topic this long would show that the issue (6vs8) is indeed a problem. 6 slots would be just enough to play every primary profession in PROPHECIES. We get 6 slots, essentially punishing us for buying GW and Factions instead of 8 like a newcomer to factions. I don't care about the abstract percentages or whatever else you can come up with, the simple truth is that 6 slots just IS NOT ENOUGH! Lets say you're the average GW player. 2-3 PvE characters, maybe one is a dedicated farmer. One free/PvP slot. You used all your slots, and you're pretty happy. Here comes factions, SAME SIZE AS TYRIA, but only 2 SLOTS! How do they expect you to play Factions to the fullest WITHOUT BUYING ANOTHER COPY? Lets say your old characters were: W/R, E/Me, Mo/W (or some other farming build). Factions will open up more options that 2 slots will allow. Just a question to Anet, why punish your loyal customers with some cheap ass marketing strategy that works against them. If you really were sqeezing for profits why not make new factions plauyers have only 3 slots but if they link get 4? It would encourge them to buy Prophecies and that means more $$$. Otherwise I don't know what you're trying to do if its not the money you're after.

well i for 1 think that 6 is enough. as you can tell by my posts. yes, i would like 8, but I know whinning about it isnt the answer, and 8 is definately not needed And for your information my 4 characters slots have allowed me to play through the game with every single profession more than once (yes, i deleted some to allow this), and also leave open 1 spot for my pvp characters. I will say I didnt enjoy deleting my characters, but at the same time it was my decision. Just like it was my decision to buy the game, and it's my decision to buy factions. It was a nice assumption, but assuming junk like that doesnt show for much at all. If you are the loyal customer you say you are, then you'll trust a-net's decision whatever it may be.

kaya · Mar 02, 2006, 12:06 AM // 00:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by rollntider

The same 4 people crying for 14 thread pages saying, they are leaving GW if they dont get 8 slots, does not constitute a public outrage.

<sarcasm> Didnt you know that the more you whine and yell the more you get? Did you not get that memo? Ya, i sit at work and whine and moan and yell... And you wouldn't believe it... my boss stands behind me and rubs my sholders, and feeds me dollars. </sarcasm>

does everybody know the expression "looking a gift horse in the mouth"

Inureface · Mar 02, 2006, 12:13 AM // 00:13

If "whining" isn't the answer, then what is?? How else do we get the message across that for most of the dedicated gamers, 6 won't be enough?? BTW roll, I meant the newcomers get 4 but I mistyped, so that was my mistake, GW is different from WoW for a reason, look at the sales, 1 million users and growing. If GW wanted to be like all the negative things about WoW then fine, no one would buy it. 8 slots is not unreasonable at all, I'm not asking for 64 slots to try out every single possible combination, but there is nothing unreasonable about 8. Sure it's my opinion, but unless you're an ass kisser, there really is no reason, unless you can give me one, why 6 IS ENOUGH and asking for 8 makes you a overzealous fanboy or spoiled whiner.

Katari · Mar 02, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

Quote:

Yes you are correct if they were primary but with 4 slots you could have a build of every character once and have your choice of 2 duplicated professions. Because each toon can do 2 professions. Thus you can play every profession with 4 slots.

When my W/Mo goes and heals as well as a primary monk, or when my Mo/W out-tanks a warrior, then that argument will make sense.

Quote:

Per your opinion. I happen to agree that I would like more than 4 per pack, but who is to say 14 or 32 is enough?

Because 8 slots would let you play 100% of the game. It is not an arbitary value.

If you're going to compaire GW to other games, how about this: In D2 you could have as many accounts as you wished. Not that I think D2 should be compaired to GW, but then neither should SWG, or WoW.

Quote:

The same 4 people crying for 14 thread pages saying, they are leaving GW if they dont get 8 slots, does not constitute a public outrage.

And the same four people whinning about how we have enough, in a thread that apparently dosn't matter to them dosn't prove they are wrong.

kaya · Mar 02, 2006, 12:18 AM // 00:18

mention it, and leave it to rest. i'm pretty sure a-net knows your concerns. they're way good at picking up on the desires of their gamers. at least they have been. and i'm betting they'll continue to be.